The Northman Composers Open up About Crafting a Symphony of Brutality

Few filmmakers have carved their own path like Robert Eggers, as he has been able to lean into the acclaim he has earned from critics with his debut The Witch to embrace unconventional cinema with The Lighthouse, a trend he continued with The Northman. While the new film is a historical epic, Eggers held back on embracing contemporary cinematic styles in hopes of creating the most authentic experience imaginable, which extended into the movie's music. The filmmaker enlisted the talents of musicians Robin Carolan and Sebastian Gainsborough, who not only aimed to capture the historical atmosphere of the project, but even used period-accurate instruments to fully immerse the audience in the experience. The Northman is in theaters now. The Northman score is available now digitally through Back Lot Music and will be available on vinyl through Sacred Bones Records on July 1st.

From visionary director Robert Eggers comes The Northman, an action-filled epic that follows a young Viking prince on his quest to avenge his father's murder. With an all-star cast that includes Alexander Skarsgård, Nicole Kidman, Claes Bang, Anya Taylor-Joy, Ethan Hawke, Björk, and Willem Dafoe.  

ComicBook.com caught up with the composers to talk about collaborating with Eggers, embracing ancient instruments, and future projects.

ComicBook.com: How did the whole collaboration process start between Robert enlisting the two of you to score this picture?

Robin Carolan: Well, basically Rob and I had been friends for some time and we'd talked a little bit about maybe working on something together at some point, but it never really went beyond just drunk conversation. We never really established what that might be. And then, he just surprised me. I knew The Northman was about to go -- well, it wasn't going into production, but it had been greenlit and he just surprised me and asked if I would like to do the score for it. At that time, I was at a slight crossroads with things in terms of what I'd been doing for the past 10 years and what I wanted to do going forward.

So it just happened at a very convenient ... I wouldn't say convenient, but it was just like an odd time, really. But then the thing was I knew, obviously, because I'm friends with Rob, that The Northman was going to be this big film. It was going to have a big budget. It was Rob moving beyond indie filmmaking, so to speak. I knew I'd never made a score before, so there was no way I could do it alone and that's how Seb came into the fold. 

Seb and I had known each other for about 10 years and we'd worked together on primarily Seb's records. I basically just asked Seb if he would like to do this thing with me, and luckily he did. That's how it happened, really. It was all a bit odd, to be honest. 

Seb, since you and Robin had obviously been collaborating before and since you're both musicians, you're both collaborating on a specific element for the film. What was the collaboration with Rob like? Because you and Robin will collaborate as musicians, was having that outside party, that outside source, was he almost a mediator of sorts? That go-between of how to bring this whole project together?

Sebastian Gainsborough: I don't think it's any great secret that Rob is an auteur and likes to get in deep with whatever element of the film that he's working on. We've touched on this before a few times, but at the beginning of the process, Rob sent us, how many gigabytes was it? Some obscene amount of music.

Carolan: It was ridiculous, yeah, it was.

Gainsborough: We never could have listened to all.

Carolan: It took up a third of my laptop. I know that, because when I downloaded the music, I suddenly had a third worth of space.

Gainsborough: I was leaving my computer on all night to download it.

Carolan: For a year.

Gainsborough: So Rob, he'd already gone deep into loads of different music building this sound world in his head. He also had quite a clear idea of what he wanted The Northman to sound like, so he was like our guardian angel. He was the third collaborator, almost. We'd send him something and he'd be like, "Oh, I was thinking more like this." So there was a lot of discussion and debate and working through and meeting in the middle somewhere, but he was always really respectful of what we brought to him. And, most of the time, it was really straightforward. But he's involved, he's involved in everything.

Well, we used the term "auteur" with Rob, we could all also say he's an "insane weirdo nerd."

Carolan: That's still so true.

Along those lines, obviously the historical research he did into the narrative and the look of the film, that carries through into the instrumentation and the way this music was composed and the instruments that were used and that authenticity that was embraced by the both of you for this score. Was there a mantra or a keystone that the two of you had to keep in mind when it came to crafting this score, to make sure you made maintained that naturalistic, historical mindset that Rob obviously wanted to create? Did you find that your contemporary musical brain would sneak in and you'd have to say, "Oh, no, no, that's not in line with this vision," or was it that you had had this mantra, you had this vision and everything flowed from there? 

Carolan: I wouldn't say there was a specific mantra, but I think Seb and I knew we could never ... Everything had to feel rough, but at the same time, there's obviously too rough and then there's not rough enough. So striking that balance, I think, was key to what we were trying to do, because the world of The Northman is very harsh and everything looks slightly busted and the score had to mirror that in some respects. But then, at the same time, we're making music for a film that's costing a lot of money. So we also had to make sure that it was somewhat melodic and that it wasn't just total noise music where it would alienate like 99% of the audience.

So there wasn't like a mantra as such, but I think we knew -- we constantly kept that stuff in mind. Even the way the instruments are being played, they're intentionally being played in a slightly rough way. I mean, I'm a fan of no bum-notes in general, in the sense that sometimes it can add a real character to what you're doing. And again, I think especially with the music, I think when we were making it, I was thinking about what the state of their instruments would be. It's not like they'd be carrying these instruments around in these f-cking 500-pound velvet cases, and life was hard. It felt like we just had to make the music rough and ready, but also keep in mind that it's being made for a modern audience and we couldn't go too far with that stuff.

And in respects to a modern mindset, I mean, aside from just having to keep in mind the audience, Seb and I come from slightly experimental backgrounds. I think with The Northman, because we weren't being asked to make a very shiny, standard Hollywood score, we were able to bring in that ... I think we were able to experiment in the way that we had been used to in the past, if that makes sense. Obviously with limits, because we're not just trying to appease Rob, we've also got to appease the studio and the producers and it's a bit of a tight rope in that sense. 

Do you recall any moments, whether it was between the two of you or you brought Rob in or you got a note back from the studio that was, "Sorry, this is too insane," or, "This is too unrelenting," or, "This is too punishing for this movie,"?

Gainsborough: I'm trying to remember. That didn't actually happen, did it?

Carolan: No, it didn't.

Gainsborough: I'm actually struggling to remember that happening. Robin, can you remember?

Carolan: No, they didn't hate anything, really, but I think they were just, the studio was always a little bit unsure, because I think they were just ... Seb and I came into this as total unknowns, so for them, it's fair enough, they were probably just wondering, "Can these guys pull this off? Where are they going with this?" And initially, the score became more in line with a score for a $90-million film. But in the beginning, when we were first feeling out and finding sound, it was a lot rougher, and that probably unnerved them a little bit. But obviously not so much because we didn't get fired.

But I think, no, there wasn't one particular thing that really freaked them out. I think we just had to keep refining what we were doing. And, to be honest, it helped us because even though ... I think it helped us. I mean, Robert's spoken about this in interviews, as well, about how the studio and the producers pushed him to make the most entertaining Robert Eggers film he can make.

And I think for Seb and I, the notes, not even just the notes, but that invisible pressure forced us to make something that, to be honest, I'm not sure we thought we were capable of until we stood back from it when it was all done. We were like, "Oh wow, that does function." 

Gainsborough: I'd agree with everything you're saying. Like you said, we just had to recalibrate the whole time, but I think we ended up making something because, actually, both Robin and I love melody, we really love melody, especially Robin, poppy structures. So we ended up having more opportunities to do that, which probably produced a score we enjoyed more than just loads of grotty noise. So it works in our favor, ultimately.

As an artist, where you're devoting months of your time to this piece of music, this number of tracks, did you ever find yourself struggling to navigate that this music is being crafted to support this cinematic vision, but also wanting this to be an album that stands on its own, that people can listen to and have it be an evocative piece of music that tells a story that you can listen to without actually even needing to necessarily watch The Northman to still enjoy listening to this Northman album?

Gainsborough: A hundred percent. I mean, obviously, primarily we've got to make sure that the music does what it needs to do for the film, but I feel like, and Robin, correct me if you don't feel like this, but I feel like we both felt like music should work for the story of the film, and it should work separate from the film, as well. Again, going back to that idea of we wanted the music to tell the story in a particular way that would be reflected separately from the film. That was really important to us, because otherwise it would just feel too ... I don't know. I think I felt like if we could do that, then it would be better for the film anyway. Then it would be a sign that we'd really nailed it. 

Carolan: Yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean, I think the only thing I'd say is that, obviously, the only real thing that I was focusing in on was just what we had to do for the film. And obviously you keep fingers crossed and you hope that will translate beyond the film, and that it can exist as its own thing. I think we felt like we were making something like that, but you just don't know. And the thing is Seb and I had to work on the score for a really, really long amount of time and it wasn't necessarily through choice, it was because of COVID and because of a very, very long post-production process. So after 18 months, you don't even know what you're making anymore. You can't really hear it for what it is.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, I guess we hoped we would make something that could exist outside of the film, but you just don't know after a certain point, because you almost can't hear ... I still can't hear the music the way people are hearing it now. And I'm not sure I ever will.

I mean, when we were like putting the tracks together for the vinyl, we left certain tracks out because we felt like they didn't operate outside of the film, like one track being for the village of Hrafnsey, which I'm hearing people are not happy that it's not there. So I might have f-cked up there because my feeling was it just didn't operate outside of that scene. So I think, long story short, what I'm trying to say, it's yes, we definitely wanted to make something that felt like its own, like an album, but I think your ears start to, I don't know, it's hard to see the wood for the trees after a certain point. 

Looking back on the project or listening to the finished product, seeing how it all has come together, do you have a standout sequence that you were most excited to work on, or that once you finally saw it up on the big screen in a theater, that you're most proud of?

Carolan: There wasn't a scene that I suppose ... Actually, no, that's a lie. I was really excited to work on the hallucination scene just because the cue for that is quite conceptual, and it was basically what would a bullroarer sound like if you had a huge string ensemble play that or try to sound like it. And obviously that could have been a complete flop of an experiment, but I think it worked, it definitely is gross and disgusting enough to go with the hallucinations. So I was pretty excited to work on that one and then to see that come together was very cool.

I'd say in terms of watching the film, things that I feel proudest of, I don't know. It's a hard question to answer. I feel like, for me anyway, the dust hasn't quite settled, so I'm still processing it. So I feel like maybe in like six months or six years, I might be able to answer that question. But I feel like right now, it's all a bit surreal to even know that there's a film out there and it has our music. And I'm proud that we didn't get fired, we got to the end. 

I should let the both of you know that you actually were fired and they just got Hans Zimmer to crank out another score and everybody loves it.

Carolan: Whatever gets the job done.

Gainsborough: I was really excited to work on the bit where they're in the woods just after there's been that pagan dance scene. And there's that tender moment between Amleth and Olga because it's tender and it's soft. It was really nice to work on that bit because we could lean into melody and we could lean into something a bit sweeter, which, as you know, there's not a huge amount of that going on in the movie. 

And then the bit I was really actually proud of and loved seeing on the big screen is, right at the end when Amleth is heading towards the volcano and there's these big landscape vistas, I was sitting there watching it in the cinema. I was thinking, "Well, sh-t, this is actually a perfect, big-screen drama moment." And the music works so well with that for me. I was surprised and super, super happy with that bit.

There can be a lot of pressure, nervousness about making Rob happy, making the studio happy, making audiences happy. What was it like having to score a scene with Björk? Does that add any other layer of like, "Oh, not only do I have all of these cinematic criteria that I need to accomplish, but Björk is going to be hearing my music." Did that factor in at all or was her scene just as challenging or just as exciting as any other scene in the movie?

Carolan: Well, Björk and I have known each other for a long time and we'd worked together in the past. So in that sense, it wasn't super intimidating because we know each other and we're past all of that. But that cue did have some ... I think that cue threw up a lot of questions because, obviously, Björk is in the scene and when you've got one of the greatest singers of all time in a scene, how do you do well? Do you factor them into the music? And how do you do that? And, also, how do they feel about it? Do they want to be a part of it? So it threw up a lot of questions and it was tricky, not necessarily because of Björk, but I think because Rob had something very specific in mind and also Björk didn't sign up to be a musician on the film, she signed up to be in the film.

So it had its challenges for sure. I mean, she is on the cue, she's on the cue in a very subtle, textural way, which is what she wanted, as well. It's tricky because we're making a cue and the studio have to like it, Rob has to like it, and Björk has to like it, and they're three very, very strong entities.

Gainsborough: It was really interesting going through this process of like, Björk is going to give us some music for the scene and initially it was quite different from what's ended up on the score and Björk's parts were a lot more prominent. And that idea might instantly make a lot of sense to people, but it was interesting to navigate over the course of several months and work out, "Actually, it works better for the film if it's actually more settled, if it's more subdued in the mix." And that surprised me, because, going into it, I was like, "Okay, this is going to be Björk's moment, there's going to be quite a prominent vocal part here." And that wasn't how it turned out. But I think it works and serves the film better for that.

Carolan: Look, if the film had been made in the '90s, we maybe would've come up with some huge f-cking big pop moment where Björk starts like belting the tune, but we're not in that era now and I think everyone felt this way. It would've been incredibly weird if her scene had suddenly just become something that she would do for an album of hers, because it would've immediately taken you out of the world and the music in general.

I think, also, I was a little bit, well, not paranoid, but I was a little bit worried that because people knew she was in the film and were making the music, I was worried that people, especially fans of hers, would expect, I don't know, like Selmasongs for Dancer in the Dark. And it's like, "No, it's never going to be that, because it's just not that kind of film." So it was a tricky cue, definitely it was one of the headscratchers for sure. But I think we came up with something that everyone was happy with and I think it serves this theme well, so hopefully people feel that way about it. 

Now that you've done the score for The Northman, do you have a dream filmmaker or collaborator or franchise, anyone that you, now that this door is open to you, that this project is going to bring a lot of attention to the both of you, is there a dream collaborator or project that you would like to work on in the future?

Gainsborough: I've been watching the Paddington franchise quite closely. I would like to bring something dark to that series.

Robin is amazing at keeping tabs on interesting filmmakers, and will often send me things he's been watching. So I'm not naturally following this stuff, so there's no one filmmaker that brings to mind, apart from, I can't remember her name, actually, but who's the director that did Saint Maud? She's amazing.

Carolan: Rose Glass.

Gainsborough: That was a film that Robin put me onto and I really love that movie, but I think Robin will give you a more fleshed-out response here.

Carolan: Rose Glass, Saint Maud, I love that film and she's someone that Seb and I would probably really like to collaborate with. I feel like I probably shouldn't say too much because you don't want to tempt fate or something. But Seb and I are spoiled, because we've gotten to do our first score for Rob, and I'm not blowing smoke up Rob's ass, but it's really special to be able to collaborate with someone like Rob because he is one of the ... I think he's a young director who is really forging a path, and hopefully will continue to do so, and just grow in stature. 

I mean, the problem is I watch so many films as well, I'm blanking on who I'd like to work with. It's such a boring answer, because I'm not really answering the question, but I don't know, Rob's next film. Robert Eggers.

Listen, we get Robert Eggers, we get Rose. We do a Paddington 3/Saint Maud crossover where Paddington self-immolates at the end.

Gainsborough: Perfect.

Carolan: I'd be up for that, definitely, can you make it happen?

I'll put in a word.

Carolan: That would be wicked. Look, I think Seb and I have talked about what we'd like to do in the future and I think we just want to work on interesting stuff. But I think we also, whether it's an indie film or something bigger, I think we are just, again, the dust hasn't really settled for me, so I find it a little bit hard to come out with clear answers because it's all just a bit, I'm still slightly dazed. But there are loads of like amazing new directors who are operating at the moment. 

I saw this crazy film called The Trouble with Being Born. That was really good. I know it's been really, really controversial, but I really like that. Claire Oakley's very cool. David Cronenberg, but Cronenberg's got Howard Shore and probably doesn't need to replace Howard Shore. I say that because I'm really excited for that Cronenberg film.

I want it now. It looks absolutely f-cking crazy.

Oh yeah. Me too. It's funny because Crimes of the Future has Viggo Mortensen and Kristen Stewart, and I know that Rose Glass, just within the last couple of weeks, she cast Kristen Stewart in her new movie.

Carolan: Oh really? Oh, wow.

I love Kristen Stewart's trajectory of doing the more teen-oriented stuff but then Personal Shopper and working with Cronenberg and Rose, she's just becoming a complete weirdo. Same thing with Robert Pattinson working with Robert Eggers, he's also embracing a total weirdo trajectory.

Carolan: Yep, it's cool. They're trying to do both things at the same time and pulling it off. But it's really cool. I didn't know she was in the new ... I didn't know there was a new Rose Glass film in the works, but that's cool.

Literally within the past week or two that news came out. So it's super fresh that that just came out.

Carolan: Okay, cool. I'll have to look into that, but Crimes of the Future, I'm very excited about that. He released the novel, a few years ago, I just finished reading, it's insanely good, but it just reminded me. He published a novel a few years ago called Consumed. I mean, like most people, I think I prefer Cronenberg when he is doing weird body-horror, violence and viruses and sex and all that. And that's what Consumed is.

History of Violence and A Dangerous Method, his more grounded stuff is obviously still great, but I think when Crimes of the Future was announced, everyone was like, "But is he really going to go completely Cronenberg?" And then that first trailer came out and you're like, "Oh, he is absolutely bananas."

Carolan: Yeah, I mean, it looks like the most Cronenberg thing ever.

And his son, too, is going completely Cronenberg with his movies.

Carolan: I think his son's movies are very cool. Although I think in terms of music, I think he's got a go-to person, and I suppose that's the thing as well, going back to what you were saying, a lot of these directors are already establishing their go-to guys, and that's really cool. So everyone's like finding their people, so to speak, but I really like, is it Brandon Cronenberg? [Alexander Skarsgård's] in his next film, actually.

I don't know much about it, but he is in it.

The Northman is in theaters now. The Northman score is available now digitally through Back Lot Music and will be available on vinyl through Sacred Bones Records on July 1st.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity. You can contact Patrick Cavanaugh directly on Twitter.