Tom King and David Finch On Morrison's JLA Influence and a Batman Who's Not Afraid to Quip

This week, comic book readers will get to know Gotham and Gotham Girl, the two caped, flying figures seen watching over Batman in Batman: Rebirth and introduced in earnest at the end of June's Batman #1.

The issue comes from writer Tom King and artist David Finch, who will expand the world of The Dark Knight significantly from the first issue, which was largely just Batman and Alfred against impossible odds.

King and Finch joined ComicBook.com to talk about this week's issue, and the role Gotham and Gotham Girl will play coming up.

You can get Batman #2 at your local comic shop tomorrow or pre-order it on ComiXology today.

How do Gotham and Gotham Girl shape the next bit of your story? Are they going to continue to be the major, major players they were in this issue, or is this our opportunity to meet them, and then they're going to be part of tapestry of books?

Tom King: Hopefully they're going to be part of the tapestry of the DC Universe.

I've got huge plans for them, and they'll shape this entire year. I've said this elsewhere, that the whole year is leading up to this one fight that I'm trying to make the biggest fight in the history of Gotham, and they're at the center of that.

They'll play out throughout this whole trilogy I'm doing. This is just the beginning.

Obviously, it hard to ignore the Superman parallels, with the custom design and everything. Is that something where Superman is going to become curious? If that happens. Is that far enough down the line that you don't want to talk about it?

King: What's safe to say is I very much want Batman to be tied into the other books in the DCU for multiple things. It raises the stakes of the books.

On some of them these stories are real because they affect every other book. Number two, I want to write all those characters, and I want Batman to get involved with them. Number three, which this is behind the scenes, but the people writing these books are my friends. Pete Mosley is a buddy of mine. Scott Snyder, Steve Orlando, Tim Seeley, these guys are my buddies, and working with them and collaborating with them on all this stuff fun, and it makes these comics awesome.

Superman, and the Justice League, and the reaction of the bigger DCU to these characters, and their relationship with Batman will play a role going forward. It's going to be big explosions, and some cool super hero stuff that I always wanted to do.

The thing that struck me as really interesting was seeing Batman tell Jim, "They're with me." When the Gothams showed up. It wasn't that long ago that you would just never hear Batman say that about somebody until he had them thoroughly vetted. What does that say about your take on the character?

King: My Batman, how he speaks to me is his vow [that no one else should be the victim of a crime like he was]; that's his ultimate goal. It's almost an existential goal for him. He'll do anything to achieve that, but he's smart enough to realize that family and teammates help him achieve that goal.

That goal is not about isolation, it's about achievement. I think that comes right from personal experience where I have a family, and knowing that relying on people is not always a weakness. Even if you have full confidence in yourself that can give you strength, and move you forward. I know that's true for me, and it's true for a lot of people.

I wanted our Batman to not be mopey, isolated, "I want to do everything by myself," Batman. I wanted this to be a Batman who's learned some lessons. This is a guy who's been out for five years, and who's had those ten years of the missing DCU.

We're not starting with Batman #1 in 1938. We're starting Batman #1 in 2016. Those experiences of him bonding with Tim, and having all those epiphanies of what it means to have a family haven't gone away. Those are inside him, and he needs to move forward with you.

[Editor's Note: At this point in the call, David Finch joined the conversation.]

King: Dude. Dave, is that you?

David Finch: Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sitting here working. I totally forgot.

King: Good! get to work!

Dave, dude, I have to pause the interview I just got the comps for #2 today, and it's one of the most beautifully issues I've ever seen. I can't believe your art in it, man. I saw it in the computer, but in print it shines.

Finch: Awesome. Well, thank you. I haven't seen it yet. Hopefully it'll show up today.

Obviously the focus of number 2 we've talked quite a bit about Gotham and Gotham Girl. Was it you who designed those characters?

Finch: Yeah.

Obviously there's a Superman, Supergirl sensibility there. What were you going for when you sat down to put that together?

Finch: Well, Superman and Supergirl were definitely a big part of it. I really wanted to make sure that they were a mockup of those characters because that's not who they are, but they have so much of that kind of power.

I wanted that, so they have the Superman logo shape anyway, and then the rest of it is really just what popped into my head thinking about Gotham. Probably not Gothic costumes. I don't know. It's what popped into my head, and I didn't really think about it very much. I'm sorry. It's what popped into my head.

It just seemed a little bit darker to me. I think actually I had something in mind, I can't remember what it was, that I had seen somebody else do at some point. I'm always influenced by different things. Ideally it's best when I'm influenced by something, and I do it from memory rather than go and find it because then it ends up just being close.

Even though they aren't technically really Gothic I almost see a Gotham by Gaslight sensibility to both the palette and the way that their cape and hood interacts with the rest of the costume.

Finch: Actually, the color palette is totally from Tom. I wanted to do something with a green. I don't know. I tried it too. I presented it, and nobody liked it. I didn't like it either. The colors are actually from Tom. The masks that they wear actually also weren't actually in the initial design. That's also from Tom, so there you go. That's having a good writer.

King: The way Dave draws those guys it brings me back to when I was reading X-Men #1. I put down that book, and I just wanted to be a superhero. I don't know how Dave does it, but he captures that 12-year-old energy that stills drives me write comic books. You just want to go outside and fly when you see those guys. You want to be them. I don't know. I love them.

One thing I wanted to say to David, is I really like your Jim Gordon in this issue. Actually, you talked last time we spoke about how there has been some criticism of how your faces aren't expressive enough, and that you had taken that to heart and really tried to deal with that. I feel like Jim Gordon is-

King: I'm going to interrupt. Anyone who has that critique needs to read this issue because you do like 17 face expressions in this other comic artists can't draw.

Finch: Thank you.

King: That needs to be put to bed with this issue.

Across the board it was a really good looking issue, but Jim Gordon in particular just popped off the page at me every time he was in the scene. Is it a little easier to play with expressions on civilians rather than superheroes? You've got his whole face, and you've got the glasses, and everything, so it's not quite like somebody who's in a mask.

Finch: He's a little bit easier. Also, just the way he was written, he's a little more expressive. I can't do much with Batman. It's very difficult to draw a Batman that has a lot presence if I'm drawing him looking shocked and happy, but with Gordon, he's a little more reactive. He was a fun character for me to draw. I never really liked drawing him in the past, but trying to focus on different things I'm finding that I'm really enjoying things that I used to dread a little bit, so it's been good for me.

This was an exposition-heavy issue with a lot of talking, and a lot of character stuff, but you open up with this bombastic, very lighthearted action beat because it's with the poem and everything for Solomon Grundy. Is he going to play a big role in your run?

King: Grundy is a piece of the puzzle, but he's not the central piece. I love that character. I love him from the old Justice League cartoon, where he played a huge role. I wanted to use him there.

Also, I really like Batman's take down. I want to do some, "Yippee-ki-yay mother fudger." I love that take down line that Batman has in this issue. Also, it was a chance to show, these superheroes with all these big superpowers are punching the crud out of him, and he's still not falling. Batman does it through using the strength in his legs and leverage.

It was just a chance to show the dichotomy, which is the theme of this entire first of year. Even Batman without super powers can take down a Hulk-level figure if he just knows the exact right way to do it.

Obviously Dark Knight Returns had happened when I was very young, but the first time I really remember people talking about this notion of, "Batman can take anybody down if he's got a half an hour and a toothpick," was Grant Morrison in '97. When he launched JLA I remember he said that in an interview. That's become kind of the Bible now. When you look at an issue like this I almost feel it's a little bit more earned than many writers do because, like you said, you see how and why that worked as opposed to just, "I'm Batman."

King: It's funny you mention that because this issue had a direct shout out the JLA Grant Morrison did. There's a famous panel where Batman has to break into something. I think Superman says to Martian Manhunter, "Can you see him?" Martian Manhunter was like, "No. How is that possible?" I almost quote that in this thing because I love that version of Batman that Morrison put forward in the, and I wanted to pay tribute to it.

That's the problem. Sherlock Holmes is the greatest detective, but unless he shows you he's the greatest detective it's boring just to say it. You have to constantly show. That's what the first issue was about. We wanted to show you him solving an impossible problem. We constantly want to say that it's not.

Although it's got to be two things. Number one, we want to show him solving those problems, but we also don't want to bore you. Because a character who can always solve problems, there's not that much tension in seeing him do it, so we also want to skip the cliché, so there's some balance there. Sorry. That's getting little detailed to the writing lines that were there.

Finch: I get the scripts, and we talk about it. They're very challenging to draw because you're putting so much, but it's interesting to hear you say it that way. It carries. When I'm drawing them I definitely feel that way.

King: It would be stupid for you to show Batman sneaking off the roofs, and then when Gordon turns around he's not there. To have like three panels of him sneaking away and hiding behind a barrel, or something. Sometimes skipping the cliché makes it more fun.

I love the fact that your Alfred, he's very snarky. I think my favorite line in any comic in a long time is in #1 when he says, "Awaiting your stability as ever." Then we get another similarly great line in #2.

King: To be perfectly honest, this is stupid, but do you remember in the Lego Movie when they play the Batman song in the background? He's like, "Darkness, no parents?"

You just start laughing, and you're like, "Oh, my God there's so much humor involved in Batman, and someone's sort of puncturing that bubble." I didn't want to forget that aspect of the character. There is a certain absurdity to it, and if you don't acknowledge that absurdity and let the audience laugh along with it then it just becomes eye-rolling.

Alfred can serve that role in Bruce's life. He's such a great character, and he's dry as a martini, and he's constantly making jokes, and Batman's never acknowledging them. He's perfect. He's the Buster Keaton of the issues. I love writing Alfred.

The one note I'm getting from all editors is, "More Alfred scenes. More Alfred scenes.

I was writing to the scene in here where he's sitting in the cave, and he's doing the Batman thing. He says, "Oh, I'm so distressed," and you're just basically giving exposition on why he's distressed. I'm writing a stupid scene, and I'm like, "This is dumb. This is Batman staring at someone saying he's sad." I was like, "I need to cut into this and get into it." It made me so happy to bring in Alfred and be like, "Oh, yes. Gotham is descending into chaos for the 5,000th time. We get it. Now, you still have go to your party."

Just to have him come in, and say ... It keeps me honest as a writer to have Alfred's voice in my head being like, "Tom, come on. It's okay. Pull back."

Actually, that raises a good point. This is a thing I harp on all the time, but I grew up in the '90s. I loved the secret identities and the supporting casts. Obviously there has been a trend towards using less, and less, and less Bruce Wayne over the years, and having it be much more just Batman centric and superhero centric. That course has been reversed a bit with the tail end of Morrison's run, and then Scott's run. We've seen a lot of Batman so far, do you think you have a really strong take on what you want to do with Bruce Wayne as well?

King: I don't see a distinction between the two characters. I was talking to Mark Wade, he thinks Bruce Wayne is the mask and Batman's the true face of this guy. To me they're all just tools he has to fight crime, and I think that's what makes Bruce Wayne interesting is how Batman uses that tool, and how using that tool affects him. I think he sees himself as both Bruce Wayne and Batman. We see him differently, but inside his own head he sees it all as one gestalt kind of thing where there's no distinction between the two.

I think that makes it interesting for me. You have to play with that stuff. Scott did it perfect. His Bruce Wayne was awesome, so I just want to pick up that mantle and run with it.

David, obviously drawing Bruce Wayne is often dull because he's another White guy with black hair. Are there visual cues you can pick up on and make Bruce interesting?

Finch: I have to be careful with him because he's another character that if I go over the top with expressions I worry that it can make him seems not serious, but then I look at what Greg Capullo did, and he's all over the place. It just really worked. It's a balance, and I'm always think about it with him. I haven't actually had a huge amount of time drawing him.

With Gordon I'm just having fun with it and going a little further. Even Alfred, he is so dry, and he's so ... Look, I'm an artist. He's very dry, but drawing him is a lot of fun for the same reason. I can really push it. With Bruce I'm trying to find a bit of a balance that works.