The Wheel of Time Showrunner Explains Big Finale Changes

The Wheel of Time's Season 2 finale featured some big moments from the book series and also some big deviations from the source material. This week, The Wheel of Time wrapped its second season with a massive battle in Falme and the show's heroes being reunited after an entire season of being separated. The finale episode featured some big moments pulled straight out of the book series, such as Mat blowing on the Horn of Valere and calling upon heroes from past ages, and some big changes, such as the final confrontation between Rand and Ishamael. To help us sort through the finale, ComicBook.com sat down with Rafe Judkins to discuss some of the big moments of the last episode:

ComicBook.com: So let's talk about some of the overarching themes of the season. So Mat's role in the season was that he was tempted by the Dark One and faced with his own self-doubts. Could you walk us through what were you trying to do with that plot line and how do you feel it was resolved in the finale?

Rafe Judkins: One thing that was important to us with Mat this season,and with all the characters, was showing the core character trait that they'll display through the entire book series. And I think for Mat, that is being a hero but not believing he is one. And so for Mat, he's obviously at a big low because he left everyone at the end of last season. As we pull him back into the show, it was really important to be able to see those doubts that he has about himself because that's just as important to his character as the fact that he delivers when he really needs to. And so I'm really happy with how it came out. 

I still get emotional when I watch The Heroes of the Horn moment with him. We wanted it to feel like blowing the Horn of Valere, which is one of the most iconic moments that Mat has through the entire book series, is tied very fully to this core character trait of his. You're getting an emotional payoff when he blows the Horn of Valere as well as just a plot payoff. And so that's what we really tried to set up – he's very down on himself at the beginning of the season over his actions that he took in the last season. And then with Ishamael and what Liandrin does with him, everyone is pushing him towards the dark essentially and saying, "Wouldn't it just be easier to pick up the dagger? Wouldn't it be easier?" To see him really step up and accept that that is a part of him that he wants to touch the dagger, but he's able to not do it when he needs to. And in the final moment when he thinks he's going to die at the hands of the Seanchan and is able to blow the Horn of Valere, he is able to realize that he is a hero even though he thinks that he's not.

Hopefully will give to audiences that don't know the books a really clear take on Mat as a character, and how he functions in The Wheel of Time world, and simultaneously for people who are fans of the books give you a really iconic Mat moment from the books and you get to enjoy it all over again.

On the flip side of that, Perrin's arc this season ended with a moment not from the books. In the finale, he kills Geofram Bornhald and sets up that Dain Bornhald rivalry in a way that wasn't established in the books. In the books, Perrin was framed, basically. He was blamed for Geofram's death and he wasn't even involved with it. So again, walk us through the decision to have Perrin be responsible for Bornhald's death and what that sets up moving forward.

Judkins: In the books Perrin has a great deal of guilt for two Whitecloaks that he kills in the first book who killed Hopper. And that's a huge thing that he deals with in the books, it's like him coming to grips with violence and what it means to do violence. Also in the books, he is accused of killing Geofram Bornhald and feels guilty about it because he has committed violence in the past. For in terms of streamlining stories, that to be able to bring those two stories together in this moment could give a lot more emotional impact than it would have if Perrin had just killed some random Whitecloaks. It is someone that we know and it's someone that we identify with being good, even though he's killed Hopper, which makes him evil incarnate to the audience.

I think it gives Perrin quite a complex emotional state for what he has to deal with with the Whitecloaks moving forward and what goes on in the Two Rivers in future books. When Dain Bornhald tries to get his revenge on Perrin's parent for killing his father, it brings all of those things to a very fine emotional point to have him killed Bornhald. So I'm really happy with that decision because I think it just brings a little bit more clarity to Perrin's arc around violence.

So Rand's fight obviously goes very different than it does in the books. Obviously, you wanted to make it a cast moment instead of just a big Rand moment. But I do feel like the one thing that fans are going to bring up is we got robbed of seeing Rand use his sword. So again, can you talk us through a little bit of the decision to change things up and how you went through that final fight scene. And also it's not broadcast through magically, inexplicably throughout the city either.

Judkins: In the books, there's this idea of a battle in the sky above Falme and we did want to achieve that in the show. But we also are at a place now where we've seen a lot of battles in the sky, in Marvel movies and DC movies, and you see a lot of people smashing away at each other in CG clouds and that I think it could have a different connotation now than it might have when the books were written. So we really wanted to achieve a battle in the sky above Falme, but by doing it on this tower, it lets us make it feel more real. It lets us do more of it practically.The more we can do practically and not just with VFX, the better for us. 

For Rand, I think what was important to us with his journey with the sword is that it's a story that we're signaling very clearly that we intend to do by the scene with Lan in episode seven, where he recognizes that Rand has learned a little something about the sword. That's the beginning of Rand's story with the sword and what he's doing with the sword. 

This season was very much about Rand going to Logain, of him being afraid of the power that he wields, and of him pushing away the people that he cares about the most. Those are the themes that Rand is up against in book two of the books – he really tries to push away his friends and drive Mat away from him, drive Perrin away from him, drive Loial away from him, and then realizes that actually they're stronger together, which is a really recurring theme in the books for Rand too.

So that was why we brought them all into this final set piece so that you truly have that feeling of these are characters that we've seen separated all season, and now here they are together. And that actually as much as they try to protect each other, and especially as much as Rand tries to protect them by pushing them away, they actually they are better when they're together. Which I think is an important thematic piece for Rand to have as he moves forward into the future storylines he has to tackle. Because he has got a big long arc to go on across these hopefully eight seasons, and so this is a really important step along that path.