Interview: 'ToeJam and Earl' Co-Creator Greg Johnson Gets 'Back In the Groove'
This March, ToeJam and Earl will finally make their return to the gaming scene with Back In the [...]
This March, ToeJam and Earl will finally make their return to the gaming scene with Back In the Groove on various platforms. It's been a long road for the hip-hop aliens' return, starting with a very successful Kickstarter campaign and continuing with ongoing development, as well as a partnership with Adult Swim that didn't quite work out as expected. Still, the trip should be worth it, particularly for fans that grew up enjoying the duo's hit Genesis games.
We recently had a chance to sit down with the co-creator of the characters, and one of the focal members of the game's development team, Greg Johnson, to get details on its creation, challenges, and what could be next for our favorite aliens.
Getting Back (In the Groove)
First off, welcome back, ToeJam and Earl. How does it feel to bring these gaming heroes back to the landscape after all these years?
Pretty awesome. Making a complex game like this is a long road and it has been exhausting and trying at times, but we are getting very close to the end now and it's really exciting to start thinking about a new TJ&E finally being in the hands of the fans. I and the rest of the team can't wait to see what people think of the new game. This is a different kind of excitement than releasing a game with new IP. In this case so many people have strong memories and attachment to the characters and world that it will be especially exciting to see if we have been able to fulfill their hopes and expectations. I am feeling pretty good. I think it's going to be a new day for Funkotron.
Does the duo have a big following with old-school gamers? Are people still discovering the original games that started it all on the Sega Genesis?
As we have gotten closer to release, we have been hearing from more and more of our fans. I have been surprised at how many people out there fondly remember ToeJam and Earl. I have also been surprised at the number of young people that know the game. Games One and Two have continued to sell all of this time digitally on Steam and on the Sony and Nintendo online stores. Perhaps not in large numbers, but it has been enough to keep awareness alive and slowly spreading amongst new gamers. The original games are also part of Sega's new Genesis collection for the Switch. The real magic of TJ&E is in multiplayer play and in bringing people together. My biggest joy will be in hearing about how old TJ&E gamers play with a new generation of gamers and enjoy the experience together. I sure hope the gaming world is ready for some retro funk and multi-player mischief.
“Money!”
What pushed you to bring back ToeJam & Earl: Back In the Groove? Was there a high demand for it, or did you just think it was time for them to make their return?
As is usually the case, it was a combination of factors, but there was one thing that really pushed me over the edge. I had been getting asked why I wasn't running a crowdfunding campaign by many fans for a while, since so many other retro games were making comebacks. In late 2014 I was teetering on the fence, trying to decide if I should take the leap and I asked the Universe for a sign. Next thing you know, a friend of mine brought a GameSpot article to my attention: it was by Tom McShea and was titled "We need a New ToeJam and Earl as Soon as Possible". As far as signs and portents go, this wasn't one of the subtler ones I've seen. So, I guess you can all thank Tom McShea, messenger of the gods.
There's been a little bit of difficulty in getting the guys back on game consoles. What would you say the greatest challenge was?
I hate to give a boring answer but honestly, the biggest challenge is always the same. It's just money. Money means development time. Everything takes time, and porting a game to consoles takes a lot of work. People have this idea that you can build in Unity and press a button and "Presto! It is now working on all of your consoles," but that's not the case. Consoles always each have their own idiosyncrasies, and when you are going from PC to console you always have to put a lot of attention into optimizing for frame-rate. This basically means re-writing your code to work more efficiently, and when you do this, things start to break. This is all fine and part of the dev process, but it takes an unpredictable amount of time. Another tricky thing about consoles is the approval process you need to go through. Each platform has its own requirements and the platform holders do testing and keep kicking back the project to you to fix new things they find. Again, the timing of this is unpredictable, which is tough when you are trying to hit deadlines for a release date.
The Adult Swim Dilemma
Adult Swim was set to publish the game for a little while there. Can you say why it didn't work out, or was it just a mutual understanding between your two companies?
I'm not sure I know all of the reasons. It may be that the priorities, or focus, of Adult Swim as a company shifted. I was never really party to their inner decision process. What I can say is that we were much, much later than we had said we were going to be with the game. That was totally our fault, as we had way underestimated when we would have the game ready to ship on the various platforms and with online play. Adult Swim was super patient with us, and at one point said to us they felt they wouldn't be able to do the game justice given the other titles they had in the works, and they asked me if I was interested in taking it back and self-publishing. I really appreciated their candor and their interest in seeing what was best for the product, so we ended up taking it back. In truth we were all quite excited (and nervous too) about self-publishing. We never would have gotten this game done and out if it wasn't for Adult Swim. I feel quite grateful to them.
How has the reception been at events for the game? Are people excited to get, ahem, Back In the Groove?
Reception for our game has gotten better and better with each show. That's mainly because we have been listening to the feedback we have gotten from each show and after each show we come away with a long list of changes and improvements. You might think that developers go to these shows just to show off the game they have. Not so! These shows are 4-5 days of intense play-testing for us where we view a steady stream of players and see their issues and listen to their comments. Especially when it came to multi-player play and to first time player experience. Each time we did this we came home motivated to make the game much better. Having enough time to do many show cycles really does improve the quality of a game.
Lots of Memories and Great Feedback
Have you been getting feedback from other indie developers as well? Perhaps those that grew up with the games?
I do have a few friends who are game developers and they have certainly made useful comments, but I can't say they were any more useful than the general fan comments that we have gotten. All of the fans on our forum have been amazing, and when we ran our closed beta we had a flood of feedback on Discord that was also super useful. We had a few uber fans who went way above and beyond in their QA feedback and we ended up putting them into our credits as invaluable QA help.
What's your fondest memory of working on the ToeJam and Earl series? If you have just one, that is. You can share multiple if you wish.
In any case, my fondest memories in both cases probably revolve around the music and the art. Making video games is a lot of fun but it is hard and stressful. It is a constant stream of technical and logistical problems, trying not to be too late on deadlines etc… The most fun parts are always the artwork and the music. It's so fun to walk into the artist's office and see what's new on their screens. It was also a total blast to work on the funky music with the talented musicians. Just thinking about that part makes me smile. Here is a cute little memory: I was in a grocery market near my house wearing my TJ&E hoody one day when some guy came up to me and said "ToeJam and Earl! Alright!! Fistbump!!". I said, "Yeah that's my game!", and he said "Yeah man! Mine too!" and walked off. Clearly, he and I each meant something different from that (as he certainly wasn't on my development teams), but it didn't seem worth correcting him.
The Finish Line!
How excited were you to finally see the game get a release date?
It was a big step for us. It's exciting but also nerve wracking to announce a release date. Once it is announced you really can't change it, and that means when things come up that make you late (and they do) you simply have to find a way to make it work. Still there is something nice about knowing it will get released on that date no matter what. We can definitely feel the excitement rising now as the date approaches.
Bringing Your Friends, and Your Switch
It'll support single player and multiplayer, right? So others can "jam" along with their friends?
For sure! Multi-player is at the heart of this game experience. We support up to 4 players on the PC in local play and up to two players on console for local play. We support 4 players in online play on all platforms. I am hoping that down the road we may be able to do more optimizing and get 4-player local play fast enough on the consoles. Players can join games and leave games anytime too.
And the fact it's coming to Switch, and is already listed on the eShop, that must have you guys really excited for how that version will perform.
So far we have seen more requests for the Switch version than the other platforms. We are super excited to see how it will perform. And yes, seeing it listed in the eShop makes it feel very real. I sure hope people love this game!!
When's the World Tour?
So what's next for the Toejam and Earl team besides some much-needed rest? A concert tour? A TV series? Is the sky the limit for this alien hip hop duo?
We still have a lot of things we hope to do to improve this game and take the IP further… 4-player local play on consoles for example. We are also going to be working on a Japanese version of the game and then showing it at BitSummit in Kyoto in June. A lot of where we go from here with TJ&E will depend of course on how well the game sells and what we have to work with. Our property is being represented by WME in Hollywood and we are hopeful that a series might happen, but our IP has been optioned a few times in the past and there are many hoops to jump through to get a series or movie deal off the ground.
As far as what's next for the studio, we do have another game concept already in the works, and I am also considering developing a fun ice-breaker card game of mine that we play at our office on game nights. So…many fun possibilities ahead.
ToeJam and Earl: Back In the Groove makes its way to Xbox One, PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch and PC on March 1. "Hallelujah!"
And if you're curious, you can check out the original games on the Sega Genesis Classics compilation for Xbox One, PlayStation 4, Nintendo Switch and PC!
What's your favorite ToeJam and Earl memory? Let me know on Twitter at @TheDCD!
