An all-new season of Light & Magic has arrived on Disney+, which dives even deeper into the prolific history of special effects company Industrial Light & Magic. Not only does the series chronicle some of the most iconic cinematic experiences in history, but it also brought together important components of those projects, both in front of and behind the camera. While Joe Johnston directed all three episodes of this new season, he also sat down with actor Ahmed Best to discuss the way he changed cinema forever with his performance of Jar Jar Binks in the prequel trilogy. Season 2 of Light & Magic is now streaming on Disney+.
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Light & Magic Season 2 is a three-part series that follows Lucasfilm’s visual effects company, Industrial Light & Magic, as it enters its most challenging and revolutionary period: the dawn of digital. From creating the first fully realized CG character to solving the challenge of digital water, it is an era that finds ILM scaling new heights of innovation despite dramatic setbacks.
ComicBook caught up with Johnston and Best to talk the new season, their contributions to the Star Wars saga, and more.
ComicBook: Since you’re so selective about the projects that you direct and what you’re investing your time, what was it about Season 2 of Light & Magic that made you want to commit all this time and effort and heart into?
Joe Johnston: Well, they offered to pay me, for one thing.
I thought it would be an interesting project. I left ILM in 1985, so virtually everything that happened around that period and the present day, I was not there, but I knew most of the people, and the ones that I didn’t, I hadn’t met, a lot of them worked on projects that I brought back to ILM. The films that I directed. I had a loose association with them, so it was nice and really interesting and informative on my part to be able to talk to these people. I learned a lot about visual effects. I have this reputation as a visual effects person, which I’m not. I was always a designer, and my designs got used in visual effects shots, so everybody thought, “Oh, you must be an effects wizard.” I am not, on any level. I always need to make that clear. But yeah, it was fun reconnecting with some of my old friends and coworkers, and it sounded like a fun project to me.
Going back to your work on the prequel films, Ahmed, you’re directly collaborating with George [Lucas], you’re directly collaborating with your co-stars on set. What was the relationship like between you and the visual artists who were actually bringing Jar Jar to life like? Were you just focused on, “I’ll do what’s here, what’s in front of me, what’s on set,” and not even worry about what the artists are going to do? Or was there a close collaboration there?
Ahmed Best: We were connected at the hip. There was no Jar Jar without me being a part of the team at ILM, and I’ve said this often: It felt like this really wonderful startup, at the time, where you had George Lucas at the helm. This amazing trust that he had in this team to make the impossible possible, and I felt like part of the team.
I worked on [Star Wars: The] Phantom Menace for two years, so principal photography was just a few months, and then crafting Jar Jar happened just as much at ILM as it did on set during Phantom Menace. So for me, there is no me in Jar Jar, it is a “we,” and we are Jar Jar, ILM, and I’m a part of that team.
Well, as far as the filming process goes, whether it was on set or it was in the studio, working more closely with the digital effects artists, was there a particular scene or sequence that, when you look back on it, whether it was a spectacular sequence or something incredibly mundane and minute, was there a memory of a specific, most challenging scene or sequence to pull off?
Best: There are three. Probably the first scene that I’m in with Qui-Gon walking across the forest, introducing myself. That was a challenging scene, because that was the first walk-and-talk dialogue scene and that was the first time that I just had the courage to really believe that I was part of the team, and that was thanks to Liam Neeson, who forced me to give George an idea. George went along with it.
The second challenging one was the Otoh Gunga scene with Boss Nass. Nobody really knew what the rest of the Gungans were going to look like, and I was the only one in a suit, which felt a little bit like a prank, because [Boss Nass actor] Brian Blessed was just wearing a sweatshirt, and I was like, “Well, if he can just wear a sweatshirt…” But it was challenging because only a third of that set was built. The rest was blue screen and it had to do with a lot of moving parts and a lot of levels, and we were underwater. So that was a challenging one because there were all of the elements to put together, as well as being able to do the live action and the animated acting together.
And then the third one was probably the battle scene, which was mostly done at ILM, and that one felt more old school, poor man’s process filmmaking, because we worked with real props, but those real props also were tracked with the mo-cap dots so they could be eventually replaced. There was a lot of really specific slapstick comedy that was supposed to happen in there, so a lot of it was George just really pushing us into the Buster Keaton, Jackie Chan world, and trying to make that real and believable amongst all of these battles. Those were probably the three ones that were the most challenging and the most fun, to be honest.
Joe, you’ve done so many awesome things in your career, you worked on the original trilogy. When you look back at that original trilogy, is there a specific contribution you made to those movies that you’re particularly proud of? Whether it be a major character design or just a trickier effects shot that you helped bring to life?
Johnston: Well, a lot of what I did on the original trilogy was sequence design, which was the more challenging and rewarding aspects of what that job was. The design stuff, that was — we handled all that stuff within a few weeks. George would toss out an idea of some new piece of hardware or a character or something, that process. We went through that fairly quickly, but the sequence design was actually a lot more fun. As I’m sure Ahmed noticed in the prequel scripts, sometimes it would just say, “Luke and Leia jump on the back of a speeder bike and take off in the woods,” and there’d be a gap, and George would say, “And this is where the whole rocket bike sequence goes,” and then it would end with, “And the Imperial trooper crashes into a tree,” so we’d have to go back.
Sometimes it would be storyboards, start with storyboards, but then it’d be animatics. Constantly revising the process of deciding what this action sequence is going to be. So that was a lot of what the job was in all three films. That was really the most challenging aspect of it and the most rewarding. I think that’s what gave me — a lot of what contributed to later, what I did in directing, because working with George, George is very generous with his knowledge, and when he would analyze a sequence, he would explain why we don’t need this shot, but we need another one over here, and you can throw this out. It was really interesting, it was both directing and editing at the same time.
I credit George with a lot of what I did after I left ILM, mostly because he sent me to film school after [Indiana Jones and the] Temple of Doom.
One of the themes of Light & Magic Season 2 is George being this innovator, and always not only wanting to develop the most cutting-edge technology, but also revisiting some of his older films, like the Star Wars Special Editions, and applying the then-cutting-edge effects to his older works. Seeing how far visual effects have advanced, have you ever wanted to go back to some of your earlier films and add some of those effects, or wish you had those technologies available to see what something like The Rocketeer would look like with 2025 visual effects?
Johnston: Yeah, it would be great to do that, but I try not to go down that rabbit hole because you always see something. “God! I wish I hadn’t done that shot! I wish I’d have done another take to improve that.” So I try not to get into that, but the technology of the times forces you to be as creative as you can be. I think that that’s one thing that I notice in some films today, is that it’s almost like there are visual effects for the sake of visual effects. I think that effects are a tool to tell a story, and the story should always be the most important thing. I don’t want to get bedazzled by the visual effects, because then I’m not paying attention. I’m not being engaged in what the actual story is, so just because you can do it, doesn’t mean you should.
Ahmed, the second episode of this season is very powerful, and over the last few years, I’ve really admired your vulnerability, opening up about what some of those initial reactions were to Jar Jar and how those perceptions have evolved and changed. Was there a specific moment or specific encounter that you had, maybe with a fan, that really let you know that the tide was turning and that the perception of your character was different than maybe that initial critical reception? Or was it really just a sum total of so many different reactions along the way?
Best: I think it was more the sum total of the different reactions. I remember having a phone call with George in Washington Square Park right after the movie came out where he told me, he said, “20 years from now, this is all gonna be different.” And at the time, I didn’t believe him, because it was really affecting me now. And it’s hard to come to the realization that this wonderful moment in your life is the end of your life, at 26 years old, and as future-forward as George was at the time, I couldn’t see a future; not just for me as an artist, but for me as myself. And as an artist, it’s all I ever wanted to do. It’s all I ever wanted to be, and I turned into this poison that nobody wanted to be a part of.
Even when I started auditioning for things that were not motion captured, it was like the baggage [from] Phantom Menace came along with [me]. Nobody wanted to touch me, so I couldn’t find anything. I couldn’t do anything, and so it was very difficult for me to actually, even as time passed, it was difficult for me to see the change.
It really wasn’t until I told my story, after holding onto it for 20 years, that people started coming out and saying different things to me. It was almost as if all the people who love Jar Jar now had permission to say something. Everybody seemed really quiet up until that point.
The hardest part of it, as well, was the fact that Jar Jar was a piece of film history. I remember being in film school and somebody came in from another vfx house, and they were talking about how The Lord of the Rings was the first movie to do what Phantom Menace was [actually] the first movie to do, and I was in the room. They had no idea who I was or what they were saying, or how that was going to impact the history books.
I remember thinking two things. I remember thinking, one, that’s not accurate. As genius as Andy Serkis is, there was a movie that came before it, and I was a part of that. And then the other thing is the fact that I’m sitting in this room as a part of this legendary collaboration of film history, and this person has no idea — it’s a problem — which is why I said what I said in Light & Magic 2 about erasure. I’m really glad, Joe, that you kept that in, because it’d be very easy to leave that part out, and it’s very, very important that the record is correct when it comes to not only my involvement in this thing, and as a team member of ILM, but The Phantom Menace as a movie, and George Lucas’s position in history.
And the wonderful thing about Light & Magic 2 and what Joe has done with this film is the record is now corrected, and it’s out there, and it’s something that people can point to. And for all of us who are in the future space, it gives all of us two legs to stand on and hope for the future.
Johnston: Sitting in that classroom, were you tempted to say something?
Best: I was. Yeah, I really was, but it was difficult, because I didn’t really know. Number one, it was very emotional. It hurt a lot that I was forgotten about. It hurt a lot that I was sitting in that classroom, and I had no other opportunities to move the motion-capture technique forward. It was frustrating that the industry writ large decided to just sweep the problem under the rug and not deal with it. If you think about how we moved motion capture forward after Phantom Menace, it was Lord of the Rings, then it was King Kong, and then it was Planet of the Apes.
Now, Gollum, I could have done. But King Kong and Planet of the Apes — the backlash writes itself. So it really didn’t … I didn’t really have the opportunity to continue with this work and working with ILM is transformative. It’s transformative, because the unknown and the impossible? That’s every day. And if you’re an artist, tackling big questions is the game, and when you’re in that environment — everybody at ILM looks at big questions and goes, “Bring it on,” and it’s infectious, and it’s what you want to do every single day.
Joe, I would be remiss if I didn’t bring up the fact that you’ve worked on so many incredible franchises, like The Rocketeer is a seminal film. And now what Jumanji has become, Jurassic Park, Captain America — they’ve become these juggernauts of pop culture. Would you be interested in ever returning to one of those major franchises, given what they’ve become in pop culture?
Johnston: Well, it would depend on the story, it always does. I’ve been offered a couple of projects that were associated with those films, and the stories didn’t grab me. I’m not a writer. I wish I was, but the story is the foundation of every good motion picture and I’m always looking for something interesting.
Best: I think you can revisit The Rocketeer.
Johnston: Well, they’ve been talking about a sequel to The Rocketeer or reboot, whatever you want to call it, for 20 years or more.
Best: I got one: you could do the Rocketeer Corps. I think it’s not the Rocketeer, it’s the Rocketeers. That’s how you move The Rocketeer forward. Everybody wants to do reboots, but I think there’s another section of The Rocketeer where you can have a bunch of Rocketeers and be really great. That’s just my pitch.
Johnston: I’ll give you Bob Iger’s number, you give him a call.
Best: Bring him! I’ll call Iger, I’m not afraid.
Ahmed, do you want a producer credit or you do you want one of the Rocketeer roles?
Johnston: You have to have a role, come on.
Best: I definitely want to role, but if you know anything about me — I helped write the Yoda fight [from Star Wars: Attack of the Clones] which they put in Light & Magic 2, and I didn’t get credit or paid for that. I just wanted to see something wonderful. So that’s my entire impetus. I just want to see something great on screen.
Johnston: Don’t we all?
I have to say, that whole thing at the end [of Light & Magic Season 2] was never intended to be in the show. It was the closing party of ILM and Nicole [Pusateri], the line producer, insisted that we bring a camera. And so none of that would have been in the film without Nicole’s input.
That’s interesting, because that’s what I was wondering when they were scraping the name off of the door of the old offices, I thought, “There’s no they would just randomly be timing it to capture that footage.” So knowing that it was, “Hey, we need to record this for posterity,” that confirms it.
Johnston: The reason we wanted to do it was because there was a tour of the old ILM building which is now vacant, of course, and it was Rose Duignan who was saying, “This is where the model shop was, and this is where the front office was,” and all that stuff. But the actual party was not intended to be part of the show, but you know what? It worked out.
Light & Magic Season 2 is now streaming on Disney+.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity. You can contact Patrick Cavanaugh directly on Twitter or Instagram.
