Star Trek’s Jonathan Frakes, Armin Shimerman, John Billingley, and Kitty Swink Reunite for PanCAN and Reflect on Star Trek’s Past and Future (Exclusive)

For the third year in a row, Star Trek alum Jonathan Frakes, Armin Shimerman, and Kitty Swink, are teaming up to form team “Trek Against Pancreatic Cancer” for PanCAN PurpleStride, a walk to help end pancreatic cancer.  This year, they’re joined by a fourth Star Trek veteran, John Billingsley, for the event taking place on Saturday, April 29th in Los Angeles as well as in 59 other communities nationwide to raise funds to fuel the Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Network’s mission to spread awareness of pancreatic cancer while funding research into preventing and treating the disease. We spoke to Frakes separately for a bit to ask him about returning to  in Star Trek: Picard, but now we can share our full conversation with the entire Trek Against Pancreatic Cancer group.

As Frakes recounted in our early discussion, he lost his brother, Daniel, to pancreatic cancer 25 years ago, when Daniel was 41 years old. Swink (who guest starred as two different characters in episodes of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine) is a 19-year pancreatic cancer survivor, having been taken care of while in treatment by her husband, Shimerman (who played Quark in . Billingsley (Dr. Phlox in Star Trek: Enterprise, which got a nod from the franchise for Frontier Day) lost his mother to pancreatic cancer 30 years ago. Here, they share their stories, ask for Star Trek fans’ continued help in fighting the disease, and talk a bit about Star Trek’s past and future along the way.

Trek Against Pancreatic Cancer

Armin Shimerman: I never met Roddenberry. That’s not true. I met him briefly once, and you [Frakes] knew him better. Yes, a future without disease, a future without misery, a future where people could live their lives without fear of their family members or themselves being taken away at any moment. Yes, that’s not only the Roddenberry vision. That’s the vision that we all want.

John Billingsley: Roosevelt’s four freedoms. Franklin Roosevelt was the Gene Roddenberry of his generation. 

Kitty Swink: And the thing about us being attached to PanCAN, being attached to Roddenberry’s vision, is that’s kind of what PanCAN tries to do. It tries to use science and hope and inclusion to get it done. That’s what Gene had created in the first place.

AS: Hope. Hope is instrumental for both causes, both the Roddenberry cause and for the PanCAN. Hope that we can find a cure so that people can live, and of course, hope that the future will be a better place than it is now.

JB: And the power of the community, which is why I think the 60 walks across the country and the nature of the way that people can be involved, even if they can’t make a financial contribution, by coming out and bringing their friends and their loved ones to walk in the streets and raise awareness. Everything that happens in this world happens because groups of people come together and say, “Let us increase our strength in numbers.” That’s true for every fight that’s worth fighting.

KS: I’m really lucky, and I think my job at PanCAN more than anything else is that I’m a 19-year survivor. I had a 4% chance of making it five years. You can do it, too. Your families can do it, too. Because it’s a big part of PanCAN that they don’t just take care of people like me, but they take care of people like [Armin] and John and Jonathan.

AS: Yes, because the caregivers have to be tended to as well. It’s not just the patients. Because if the caregivers aren’t there to give support to the patient, then both the caregiver and the patient is going to suffer.

KS: I often say that the most alive I ever was in my life was when I was in treatment, but I was worried about him because he was working so hard. I was just putting one foot in front of the other but he was keeping everything else together. Thank you. I like him. I think I should keep him.

Jonathan Frakes: Yeah, I would definitely.

AS: She’s talking about the dog in her lap.

This is an interview that’s going to go on the internet, and people’s attention spans are all over the place on the internet, so I ask you all this up front: If someone is glancing at this they take away just one PanCAN or pancreatic cancer in general that you would want them to take away with them after they close this webpage, what would it be?

AS: God forbid that anyone should ever be diagnosed with this diagnosis, but if they are, if you’re the patient, if you’re the caregiver, go to PanCAN. Because what they will offer you is different ways to approach the problem. All of us have suffered and not known where to go for help. Go for help to PanCAN.

KS: I would say, it’s rapidly becoming the second most deadly cancer. We have changed the parameters from when I was diagnosed, when Jonathan’s brother and John’s mom died, from 4% over five years. It’s now 12%, and largely that’s due to the work of PanCAN. Please, join us. Join us on Team Trek Against Pancreatic Cancer at PurpleStride. Please.

JB: And — knuckle crack — as somebody who helps to run a not-for-profit, one must always raise the funds. We are trying to raise $19 million. Our team is trying to raise $90,000. If you’re a Star Trek fan, you want to support the wonderful work that these marvelous thespians — I set myself aside — have done down through the years to help lift this franchise, here’s one nice way of saying thank you, Jonathan. Thank you, Armin. Thank you, Kitty. I don’t expect anybody to thank me. That’s okay.

AS: [Laughing] The humility doesn’t become you.

KS: John Billingsley, I want to say thank you. I want to say thank you, John Billingsley.

I know personally, I wasn’t aware of just how far-reaching this form of cancer has been. It wasn’t until I was preparing for this interview that I put together that, oh, in addition to your stories, it took Alex Trebek. It took John Lewis.

KS: Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

JF: Patrick Swayze.

Right. Is it a situation where more people are getting it? Or has it simply been not been researched enough or not popularized enough or underdiagnosed? What do you think is the issue where it’s only recently that we’ve started to see improvements in care?

KS: You’re not symptomatic in a way that makes sense to yourself or doctors. People don’t go to the doctor, so one of the major things that PanCAN has done is it’s raising awareness for doctors about symptoms like acid reflux. Or at the point you turn 50, over 50, you all of a sudden become diabetic for no obvious reason. You should be checked for pancreatic cancer. Lower back pain? Pancreatic cancer. There are a lot of things that people just didn’t know for a long time. Not only is PanCAN changing the framework on what the protocols are and funding those new protocols in terms of how they treat the disease, but they’re also talking to doctors about saying, “Here’s how you diagnose it early,” because early diagnosis is everything. That’s what happened to both Jonathan’s brother and John’s mom. They just were diagnosed so late.

JB: Jonathan and I both have the experience of our loved ones essentially being told, “Nope, nothing we can do.”

JF: Yeah, nothing we can do. Exactly.

AS: And that’s what was told Kitty as well, but she fooled them. But yes, we need to educate doctors so they recognize the symptoms earlier rather than later.

JB: And my mother, as we were discussing earlier, didn’t go to the doctor for ages. She thought she had some odd form of acid indigestion. She did all sorts of parlor tricks to try and see if she could just get her stomach to stop hurting. By the time she got in… Yeah, absolutely.

It is awareness raising. I mean, I’m very new. My mother died almost 30 years ago now, but I’m very new to PanCAN, so I’ve learned a lot because of these lovely people. They’ve educated me a lot about the wonderful work they do, both to raise awareness, to raise doctors’ awareness, and to raise consequently potential patients’ awareness. I think that’s one of the reasons we see this survival rate increasing so dramatically from 4% to 12%, which is quite a remarkable thing when you think about what that translates to in terms of the thousands and thousands and thousands of people who get to live out their full life and live up with their full potential. If Ruth Bader Ginsburg had lived…

JF: Also, family members need to now report to their doctor at their annual checkup if a family member of theirs has had pancreatic cancer, has been diagnosed with, or God forbid, died from it, they need to alert their doctor to that, who may or may not be aware of it so that the doctor can then treat or diagnose them more clearly with that in mind.

AS: If the doctor doesn’t take it seriously, call PanCAN to find a doctor who will.

You’ve talked about how the survival rate has improved. Have you noticed a change in the conversation that happens around the disease when it comes to maybe how receptive doctors are to the idea that they’ve missed early signs in the past, or how receptive they are to new research, or potential early signs, things like that?

JF: There’s certainly more awareness. I think there’s more awareness certainly in the community that we’re involved in and the world that we all live in. But the Star Trek community that we are trying to raise money from, for, too, has expanded the interest and awareness of it. Like at conventions, people will come up to me and talk to me at the table about how they have been affected by it. That, two years ago, was minimal. Last year was much more. This year is more than that. Specifically, I feel and see the difference and the effect that we’re having.

KS: We had breakfast on [Star Trek: The Cruise] for PanCAN, and it sold out in two minutes. Many more people wanted to come, but they couldn’t get a ticket. But they all had been touched by pancreatic cancer in some way. Positively or negatively, they wanted to talk about it and spread the word. I was really moved by that. But also I talk to people who are diagnosed all the time. If you are in a place where there’s a center of excellence, the doctors are listening now in a different way than they used to. But sometimes if you’re out in the middle of nowhere, it’s hard to get them to take you seriously. We’re striving to make everybody all across the country, every healthcare professional, understand how important this is.

AS: And our marches, the PurpleStride marches, are not just focused in New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles, but rather in 57 other cities around the country. In that sense, I’m sure doctors are being made aware in the local areas because of the marches that are being done around the country.

JB: And the math speaks for itself. 4% to 12% is, what, a 200% increase? It’s a substantial increase.

Before I throw in a couple of Star Trek questions at the end here, you mentioned donating to PanCAN, and the PurpleStride marches. What would you say is the most helpful thing someone can do to support the cause that you guys are out here championing?

JF: Help us reach our goal of $90,000! Come on! We want to win!

JB: For those folks who, for whatever reason, obviously times are tight, if they don’t feel they can make a financial contribution, you could certainly spread the word. If you’re on social media, perhaps you could follow Kitty and Armin and share their wonderful messages. It’s the megaphoning that, in my opinion, always makes the difference. You never know who is going to be touched by a message, perhaps heard third hand. 

AS: To piggyback on what was just said by both those wonderful thespians, for one thing, the Ferengi is not asking for money. Two, if you hear of someone who has been diagnosed — and this is what John was saying — hopefully by listening to us, they’ll be able to call their friends, their family members and say, “I heard about this from the Star Trek people. You should call PanCAN.” That’s what’s really important.

KS: And I invite all of you: John Billingsley, Armin, and I’ll be walking on the morning of the 29th of April at Santa Monica doing the PanCAN walk here. Join us. We’d love to have you walk with us because then you’ll be part of the family, and you’ll want to help spread the word more than just this one time.

JB: I’m actually looking for somebody to carry me.

KS: I’ve ordered a litter for you.

JB: Fabulous.

Star Trek Past, Present, and Future

We’ve got actors who did a lot of time in makeup here. Do you recall there being any sort of friendly rivalry between those of you covered in alien makeup and those of you who get to walk around as humans?

JF: I was very fortunate to be a human being on the show. It was proved every Friday night when I was able to go to Nickodell with Patrick and have a drink and wait for Worf to take his turtle head off, and wait for Brent to take that gold shit out of his pores, and wait for the two leading ladies to take their four or five wigs off. These guys not only went in four hours early, it took them an hour and a half to get out. I have nothing but respect and no envy for the people who wear the rubber heads in our company.

AS: Thank you, Jon, thank you. I, for one, really appreciate that. Thank you.

JB: I will say, I was the rubber head, but I was number seven on the call sheet. I sang a little song called, [to the tune of “Day-O”], “Day off, day off, day off, day off, and the checks still come.” I used to sing it to the human beings because that made up for the fact that I wore the rubber head. I didn’t have to come in every day.

JF: And Dorn, who did use to have to come in every day, was able to buy how many airplanes off of the forced calls?

AS: Yes, the extra time in the makeup chair bought the house. Absolutely.

JB: They had abandoned forced calls by the time I came along. I think to a certain extent they learned from experience. They tried to figure out how to minimize the time I would have to spend. Jolene had time in the chair too, but no, I think I had one forced call in four years. Which is why my airplane is extremely small. It’s a little model in a box. 

AS: Paper airplane?

JB: Paper airplane, yes. I bought a paper airplane.

AS: Succinctly, I will say yes, there was a rivalry on our set for that. But there was rivalry for a lot of other things.

JF: I remember at the end of the night on Deep Space Nine, when the late great Rene Auberjonois would stick his fingers in his eyes and pull Odo’s eyes out like this [demonstrates] and peel the face down. Then he’d look at his face and say, “Goodnight, Odo.” Then he’d put it in the garbage. That was one of my favorites.

AS: He was warned over and over and over again not to do that.

JF: Try to save the mold. You got to save the mold. 

AS: Not the mold, his face.

KS: His skin took a real beating.

AS: If you pull that sort of makeup off because it was medical adhesive that they used, you were going to destroy the pores. If you look at Dorn, he did it too, where the anchors were, the pigmentation is changed because he pulled the makeup off.

JB: My nose was much less bulbous than it is now.

JF: That was the gin.

JB: That was might’ve been the gin.

AS: It might’ve been the gym.

JB: That’s my memoir title: “Might’ve Been the Gin.”

Lastly, Jonathan, you got to come back for , and Armin, you got that really fun episode of .

AS: They’re not quite the same, you know. It’s not quite the same.

JF: So young and so bitter.

AS: So very bitter. So enormously bitter.

JB: I see where this question is headed, though. Whatever Armin got, I got less than that.

Well, I was going to say, I spoke to Mike McMahan, the , and joked with him about the next thing he should do is do an Enterprise finale-style episode where someone gets to go back and play with the Enterprise characters again. Are you holding out hope that you get to play in the Star Trek universe again?

JB: Well, if it’s the animated one, I wouldn’t have to actually wear the rubber head. That would be thrilling. Yes. I’m not often asked by the people who actually have the power to bring me back whether I would consider it, so I don’t really take the question very seriously. But I suppose if I were asked to come back, I’d have to really grapple with whether I want to put the rubber head on again. That would be my only concern.

AS: That’s right, John. That’s absolutely right.

JF: That’s exactly what Dorn’s biggest consideration was about Picard, all levity aside.

JB: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, it was the eyeballs. I mean, the eyeballs are painful.

KS: Having worn eyeballs, I have to attest to the fact that he’s telling you the truth. It’s really uncomfortable.

JB: But fortunately there’s no love for the Denobulan generally, so that’s not really ever going to come up. I don’t know why we’re the hated species.

AS: Everyone hated the Ferengi and look what happened.

And I know Armin went the extra mile and put the teeth in for his voice roll.

AS: Yes, I did, because that was quintessential Quark so that the teeth had to be there. But I will reiterate what the other two said as well. I would come back certainly, but if it was as long a stint as Jonathan, for instance, has been doing in Picard, which I’ve already told him how wonderful he is, it would give me pause. It would give me pause because it takes its toll. It took its toll when I was 40. I can’t imagine what toll it would take when I’m 70.

Well, I guess we’ll see. I know that Jonathan and some of the other people on the show, and Terry Matalas especially, have been talking up the idea of a spinoff or continuation, something like that. Who knows if they’ll stop off at Deep Space 9 for a drink at some point?

AS: Well, I hope they do. Not so much for me, but for all the other actors who occupy Deep Space 9. It would be lovely if they got a chance to recreate their roles as well.

JB: Dominic [Keating] is actually sleeping in a tent outside of Paramount. Again, we all have different attitudes.

How to watch Star Trek

The final episode of Star Trek: Picard premieres on Thursday on Paramount+. Every other episode of Star Trek television — including all seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek: Enterprise — are streaming now on Paramount+.

Star Trek: Picard streams exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S. and on Amazon Prime Video in over 200 countries and territories. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel and streams on Crave.

This interview has been edited and modified for length and clarity.