Amphibia's Matt Braly Talks Fandom, Season 3, and the End of the Show

On Reaching the Finish Line

ComicBook.com: It's been a minute. I think the last time-

Matt Braly: Hi.

The last time we spoke was right before Season 3 came out.

Yes, that's correct.

Congratulations! You're almost there. You're almost done.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I'm literally finishing the last episode of the show this week.

Well, I have to ask, how does it feel? How does it feel to be at the finish line here?

It's everything. I'm feeling all the emotions, all at once. I'm sad, but happy and relieved. It's bittersweet, but I'm so grateful to everyone who was involved. So it's a big cocktail of emotions.

On Learnings Over 3 Seasons

I have to imagine. From start to finish, Amphibia has had a relatively unusual release. The first episodes on YouTube before it going up on Disney Channel, and then it's part of a block, not part of a block, the VOD problems.

I feel like you are uniquely positioned as the person that created the show, to have gone through that gauntlet. What do you feel your learnings are for the people that come after you now that you're wrapping up Amphibia?

Well... And this isn't exclusive to cable and network television. It's streaming as well, and it's where our industry is. Everybody's searching, man, they're all searching for the best way to get this content to the viewer and to make it pop.

So I think what you're describing is years of different strategies, you know what I mean? But you're totally right where it's like, it's at 8, and now it's at 6PM, and then it's on Saturdays, and then it's on Sundays, and then sometimes it's on YouTube, and then sometimes it leaks early, but that's not planned.

There's so much... And even streaming, maybe it's all the season at once, maybe it's five episodes. Maybe it's 10 episodes. Everyone is just looking for what works the best, you know what I mean? And I think it's the kind of thing that may not be settled for a few years.

So I think that it's been a challenge for showrunners everywhere at every network to bob and weave with it, and be flexible, and also flexible with the stories we tell. There's a lot going on.

On the Pros and Cons of Fandom

There is a lot going on and especially, I feel like, Amphibia has a very voracious fandom.

Yeah.

What do you feel the pros and cons of having such an engaged audience has been over the past three seasons?

So we really have experienced a build and an escalation of fan participation. So in Season 1, I'll be totally honest, not a very big fandom, not a ton of engagement, plenty of diehards who were just loving the show, and swearing by it, and doing fan art, and participating.

But I feel like over the years, it has grown and grown; and now we are at this fever pitch of the finale's about to come out, and I feel everybody's waiting for it. Everybody's ready for it. You know what I mean?

And I think that the pro is obvious, which is, "Goodness, engagement, ooh, I love it." Because like a lot of times, creators feel like they're in a void, in a bubble of like, "Well, I hope somebody's watching this." It's sort of the feeling. But I've been so grateful to have a very healthy and big fan community that is watching our every move. [laughs]

And that's the con, is that everyone is watching the show, honestly, with a microscope and everything we do, and that's partly our fault because this is a show that has a lot of foreshadowing and a lot of setup. But then, of course, everyone thinks everything is shadowing and a setup, and some of it is, some of it isn't, and we're doing our best. But I really think that I have nothing but gratitude to our enormous fanbase.

And if you've done fan art of this show, if you've written fanfic of this show, heck, if you've made a YouTube video criticizing it, I am deeply grateful to you because it just means that you care. And to me, that's the highest compliment I could ever receive. I'd rather have criticism than someone not watching it.

On Keith David, King Andrias, and Regrets

Now, when we talked before Season 3, you were very excited about the Season 3 guest stars, obviously, RuPaul, Whoopi Goldberg. But I have to say having seen the next couple of episodes – I have not seen "All In," as you said, you're not done – Keith David is killing it in this season.

He's so good! You're talking about "Beginning of the End," which you have seen, right?

Yes.

He's so good and there's some really emotional stuff for him that is coming up in "All In" that just gives me the chills, man. What an actor. I mean, obviously, I could say this for all of them, but Keith David has just been such a pleasure to work with.

I have this story about once when he was in the booth, he just started singing. Just beautiful, beautiful singing, and Eden Riegel, our voice director, actually sent me the clip and I just listened to it, I'm just tearing up. It's so wonderful, you know what I mean?

And I will say, I don't have many regrets at all on this show, but one regret is that I never got him to sing. I'm crazy! I'm a fool! Why didn't I write some singing for this man? Can you imagine King Andrias either humming to himself or singing a very beautiful, romantic song as he's doing something awful? He's just a supreme talent and that's the only thing that I wish I would've done.

On Guest Stars

Speaking of supreme talent, you know I mentioned it, but RuPaul, Whoopi Goldberg, how was it with the guest stars this season? You really knocked it out of the park, I feel.

So RuPaul specifically was so great to work with and my wife and I are huge Drag Race fans. We always have it on, it's such a great show and RuPaul was just a complete professional. But I have to say the best memory I have is that right when we started recording with Ru, he recorded a very special message for the crew. That was to pick us up because COVID had just happened, man. And it was rough stuff.

I mean, everyone was just having a really bad time and to get this message from Ru that was saying like, "Hey, guys. I'm so excited to be on this show, I really appreciate all of you and the work you're doing," it just meant so much to us. So I remember getting that message and bringing it to the crew and playing it for them and we felt a little bit better. I mean, obviously, it didn't solve any of our real problems, but it was really nice to have. And of course, Whoopi was amazing to work with, just a total natural talent.

How did she feel when you were like, "By the way, you're going to be this giant worm-like amphibian that lives underground?"

Literally what I said to her. I said, "Now you are aware that you're playing like a giant worm, right?" And she was like, "Wouldn't have it any other way." She's great.

On Shoe vs. Shoes

Now, I do have one bone to pick about Season 3, Matt, and it'll be the only bone I pick. No shoe again, Matt. Really? Like, honestly.

[laughs] So the shoe thing became... And again, I don't want to say the shoe thing pays off, but there's a part in "All In" that to me, from a character point of view, it comes full circle and we close the loop.

So just know that the shoe to me was important because it showed that Anne wasn't the most put-together character. And for me, I wanted that all the time. And so I knew the second she was getting back to Amphibia that shoe was going, baby.

And it was so funny because when her Season 3A design was revealed, and she's got her sweater, and she's looking cool, and she's got her baseball tee with the lotus flame logo, everyone was like, "Thank God, two shoes." And I was just like, "Ooh, don't get attached."

But it's all foreshadowing, right? All pays off in the end?

Not all of it, but yeah, a lot.

On What Comes Next and Content Warnings

As you said, I have seen the next couple episodes, but I have not seen the end of the show. So what can you tell us about that? What can you tease? Are we looking at another content warning? What's happening there?

The content warning is so funny because I've seen so many fans sort of hoping to see it again, which is this great example of the mentality we're working with with fans. They sort of want the hurt? Which is strange, but hey, I get it.

Full disclosure, the content warning means something went wrong.

Yeah.

So you actually don't want to see a content warning on anything ever, because a content warning is a bandaid for an internal kerfuffle, I would describe it as. And with "True Colors," that's why there's a content warning. And in future, knock on wood, fingers crossed, you'll never see a content warning again, which is good because then you won't be able to tell, "Is this a crazy episode or not?"

On Delayed VODs

Fair enough. Now, recently, I believe it was the most recent set of episodes that have aired, you actually ended up getting the VOD delayed, which I personally had not seen before. Is that something we should expect going forward?

So the VOD delay is specifically for "All In" and "The Hardest Thing."

Gotcha.

And I'm a little split, and it was my decision, 100% my decision. It's what I wanted to make the prime time premiere of these episodes feel special. That was the goal. I felt bad that so many online fans felt like this interfered with their own events, you know what I mean? People get together and they watch these episodes, and having it on VOD early is kind of part of the culture, like, "We always get it at midnight, and we watch it, and we discuss it into the night." And I do feel bad that's not possible with these episodes.

But on the other hand, I really would like them to feel special, and that was the goal with that. So it's just the last two, it's just "All In" and "The Hardest Thing," and both of those episodes will be airing at 8:00 PM on Saturday, so it'll feel big and cool, and a big to-do.

So that was the goal and everything has pros and cons. And if I were to change it now, it would just be a whole mess because anytime you reorient at the last minute, it never goes well. So I am hopeful that the fans will have just an absolute blast however they watch it.

Right. And sometimes you just have to make the call if you're in charge, and this is the call that was made.

Story of my life, man. And a lot of these decisions... I'm actually very good at making decisions and then just being like, "Well, I already made it," because part of being a showrunner is committing to things. And if you waffle too much, it's not so bad at first, but the more you waffle and the longer production goes on, it can be quite destructive.

On Big To-Dos and Guest Animators

Yeah. That makes sense. Now you described this as this big to-do. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but "All In" is a very big to-do. I think I was reading 43 minutes. Is that accurate?

It's 48 minutes! It's huge. And everyone pulled out all the stops for this episode. The animation is some of the best we've had on the show. The music is some of T.J. Hill's best work, who's the composer. And the voice talent, it is really the best work they've ever done.

You mentioned the animation. I have to ask, are we going to get another Smallbu sequence?

So Smallbu's not working on this episode, but there was a guest animator who came in and I'm very happy with the results.

On the End, For Real

I have to ask. This is the end of Amphibia, but it is the end, right? You're not hiding a secret sequel series under your hat or a movie or anything? I've been burned before Matt, I've been burned before.

So it is the end and it is the natural end. This is a story that has had a three-season arc planned from the very beginning, even as early as Season 1, the final dialogue in the episode was in my head and I was rolling around with it. And that's great because everything we wrote moving forward, I knew that's where things were heading. Now, obviously when you have a plan and you're a meticulous longform planner, you need to be flexible and be aware that sometimes you'll get to these narrative choke points and the characters will tell you, "Whoa, I'd never do that." You'll be like, "You're right, Marcy would never do that, let's reorient." So I've had a structure, but it has always had a little bit of flexibility for bobbing and weaving when necessary. But I will say that the ending feels very conclusive and I hope very satisfying for viewers and fans.

I think that the way the ending is designed is to leave the possibility for maybe little adventures or little sequel stuff, or... But ultimately it really does feel like the saga of Anne and her friends is over, but that's not to say that the show can't live on in comic book form, as you know, we've got Marcy's journal coming out, which gets into great detail about everything that was happening to Marcy when she was off camera. So those are things to look forward to. And I think that the world can always be revisited. It's just about to make sure that if it is revisited, it doesn't contradict our ending where the characters are, it feels like a natural earned continuation of that stuff. But for me personally, I need a break, it's been a long time with the show and these characters. I was looking at my earliest pitch docs and the earliest one was dated 2015. So it's been a while. I've got a lot more gray hairs now, I'll tell you what.

So you've closed the door, but not necessarily locked it behind you.

That's a great – It's not scorched earth.

On What's Next

Now, you talked about needing a break. What is next for you? Are you just going to take some time off here?

I would be really interested... So I am taking some time off in order to discover what's calling to me the loudest, because like any creator or writer, I've got like a million ideas jumping around and bouncing around in my head and I need to find out which one makes the most sense for me moving forward. I will say specifically, I would love to do a limited series or a movie after this. Something big, something grand and romantic from a scope point of view. I loved working on our tentpole episodes, like "True Colors" and "All In" and "The Hardest Thing." And I would love to play in that space because I believe I have the potential to bring the audience something really exciting and epic. And I always looked to films like Spirited Away. Spirited Away is the film that really got me into animation and really demonstrated to me that this medium can accomplish anything. So I would love to play in that space, I think, after this.

On Shows Like Amphibia

Fair enough. Now I think we talked a little bit about this, but the ebb and flow of how things are releasing, the way in which shows are put together and published for the world to see, do you think we're going to see more series in the style of Amphibia or is the world moving in a different direction at this point?

Obviously, you have specific thoughts about what you want to do, but what do you imagine people are going to be wanting to make and put up there now that you've been in this world for so long?

I think specifically the world of episodic television with hints of serialization is not really in vogue right now. I think that stuff... And I think of myself as part of that Adventure Time school of show, I was deeply inspired by my peers when it comes to that content, whether it's Over The Garden Wall or Gravity Falls or Steven Universe, where you have all these fun little LEGO pieces and when you put them together, you get something awesome. That's always been the hope with Amphibia is that you have all these little stories, but when you put them together, it creates something much more. However, I think that the future right now is looking a little bit more fully episodic or fully serialized. I don't see a lot of hybrid content coming out because it feels like the idea of something that was episodic, but with hints of serialization was people who wanted to make something serialized, having to work within a framework that was intended for something else.

But I believe with streaming, if you want to make a serialized show, you can probably just do that. And if you want to make an episodic show, you can probably just do that. However, because of this content that we have made, it could be that there's a whole generation of animators coming up who love the idea of episodic and serialized content combined, this kind of hybrid show. So it could have a resurgence, but that's how I'm feeling. It feels like the direction is one or the other right now from my point of view, could be wrong.

Final Thoughts

Caveat taken. You've talked a little bit, teased a little bit about the final episodes, but what do you hope that fans of Amphibia take away from these last couple of episodes? Do you have any message that you would like to share with everyone who loves the show?

So from a story point of view, it would be great if even though these episodes are exciting and there's a lot of action and a lot of explosions, don't forget that ultimately there is character stories here that mean so much to the show in general, there's a really lovely arc for Anne specifically in these episodes. So even though there's a lot going on, it would be great if people could treasure that stuff as well. I think the only thing I can say at this point is just how grateful I am to the fans and to anyone who has done fan art or wrote fanfic or supported the show in any way, because it was your support that really kept the crew and I going through some pretty difficult times, and again, just immensely grateful.

Fantastic. Anything else you would like to say at all, final thoughts?

Final thoughts... I hope that this is the kind of show that when it finishes people can re-watch in its entirety and really feel the thematic elements from these last episodes also being present at the beginning of the journey. So I hope this will be one of those endings that really makes the entire piece come together in a meaningful way.